motz
divendres, 26. de novembre 2004

nelson revisited

ok, everyone knows: ted nelson is angry. not just about tim berners-lee, whom he explained xanadu over lunch in 1989, 90, something like that; still, he did the www.

» the worldwideweb is a dumb system. » the web is a degenerated form of hypertext » the computerworld today is like europe in 14hundred. there were two popes: the pope in rome and the pope in avignon. now, they agreed completely that the world, that the universe was hierarchical. really all they disagreed on was who should be pope. i think it is exactly that now with microsoft and the world wide web consortium. i see the w3c of being just like microsoft ... (some bits of ted nelson)

one remark to the - well, already historic story, why he took his xml article offline. nelsononxml (foo/bar, 566 KB)

try zigzag

... Comment

was ted uns eigentlich sagen will:

ich will papst anstelle der päpste werden.

questions:

isn't imitation a driving force behind and a very well-proven concept of evolution? what's so wrong about it?

and, dear old man, why don't you stick to your muddleheaded stories, rather than teaching us your bitter history?

... Link

imitation

"learning to do an act from seeing it done" (thorndike, e.l., 1898)
ted nelson wasn't the first one who played with hypertext. you can call him an imitator too, i guess. still, i think what he tries to tell is: the one step further from imitation to understanding has been set already by - claro - him. but people don't see it, don't get it and he still has a hard time to explain it. (his prototypes didn't get better, as far as i can tell.) anyhow, i agree with him, that it hasn't to be the imitation of paper that rules the computerworld as it hasn't to be a copy of any other medium.

besides all lamenting, there is still something i can learn here ...

bitter? yeah, he can be sour, but the real sad thing for me is the impression that he simply ignors/denies any development/idea besides his own: preaching multidimensionality, but by himself living/accepting just one, his own.

... link

den anfang (ted nelson is angry)...

...kenn ich doch von wo

... link

glaubst du, man könnte es heute anders sagen? ich nicht ;)

der unterschied zu '98: er ist nicht nur noch immer wütend, sondern auch vorsichtiger geworden: kein interview mehr ohne mitschnitt seinerseits.

... link

98, ui, das ist lange her. Toby hat ja noch immer die Tasche der Konferenz.

Habe jetzt das alte Matrixteil wieder gelesen.

Wie war er so? Im Gegensatz zu seinen Schimpftiraden, die immerhin reisserische O-töne hergegeben haben, war er ja sehr freundlich.

Hat mich ein bißchen an ein Interview mit dem genauso grantigen, alten Johnny Lydon erinnert

... link

yankee style, repeating. still hasn't found a way to explain things. no interest what is going on outside of his own world. no interest to see if others may build something he can't barf on.

his short statements are saying nothing new. and btw, that's what you get from us-media trained people anyhow: they are less able to talk; they want their 3 questions, give their 30 seconds answers y esta. not my world.

... link


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