motz
divendres, 29. de juliol 2005

cerf at register

The Register: TechScape: Vint Cerf on how the internet was born The man himself recollects... Interview The Register will be publishing three TechScape exclusive interviews with Vint Cerf over the next few weeks. In this first interview, we examine Cerf's story as one of the undisputed originators of the internet.

What, I asked Cerf, was the greatest threat to what they were doing? "The greatest threat to the internet," Cerf cleared his throat, "was a new initiative called OSI which was a seven-layer architecture format that I didn't think would work.

well, as far as i understood the story so far not all protocols worked, but the model of the layer system is still in use for having a common language.

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TCP und IP kann man an den entsprechenden Stellen ins OSI-Modell packen. Widerspricht sich ja nicht.

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soweit ich das versteh, ging es bei dem jahrelangen streit nicht so sehr um das referenz modell, sondern um die frage welchen transport nemma denn: das alte ptt telefon modell: circuit oder doch packet switching. zumindest steht das so in manchen 70papieren. ich spekulier mal weiter: damals fingen die ptts auch an sich für digitale telefonie zu interessieren. kann mir gut vorstellen, dass man am papier damit rechnete, dass ein öffentliches internet die kosten wieder 'reinspielen wird. aber dafür muss man weiterhin alles unter kontrolle halten und altes bewahren. va in alemaña; hier ließ man die öffentlichkeit ja relativ spät ins netz. und selbst vor ein paar monaten, am telefon, sagten mir ein postfräulein: ... damit haben sie die x und damit die y-fache isdn geschwindigkeit. hab' das noch nie zuvor auf diese art gehört. würd gern wissen, ob das noch so in deren handbüchern steht ;)

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widerspricht sich kulturell

deutsche ingenieurswissenschaft vs. the quest for the final frontier american pragmatism

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aber es waren nicht nur die deutschen, und die dt. computerwissenschafter waren auch nicht einer meinung ...

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deutsche ingenieurswissenschaft

ist ein international anerkannter exportartikel ("a state of mind"); auf der anderen seite waren's ja auch nicht nur die us-amerikaner...

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wäre ja seltsam wenn es nur die amis allein gewesen wären, obwohl es um ein internationales projekt geht. und zu exportschlager: ob das einst heute noch überzeugen kann?? ich glaube es nützt nur wenig, wenn man am ende seinem eigenen schmäh aufsitzt.

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oh wie wahr

aber um den nutzen scheint es nicht zu gehen. eher um ein gutes gefühl. ist ja hier unten auch nicht anders, immer noch k.u.k. und erstes opfer.

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The OSI danger

was of the way that in the mid nineties (correction: eighties) the Telecoms and some Universities wanted to do away with outdated primitive KISS protocols like TCP, IP, DNS, SMTP. They created the very fomulated OSI model and some reference implemtation that never really worked. The danger was to go from proven KISS to group-engineered overdesigned "Standards". And there Mr. Cerf is completely right. Just imagine all name resolution on the IN done via a really fat DAP (not even L then) Infrastructure.

BTW, if one studies the history of IN closely the single most important man was neither Cerf nor Kahn but surely Postel.

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90s: wasn't it a little bit earlier that universities and ptts tried to react? at least what i saw so far succests: rush hour - with less public impact though and not everywhere - already in the late seventies.

never really worked: zimmermann would argue: they protocols worked, but didn't get the chance to proof it alike tcp/ip.

postel: for sure, but i can't get hold of him ... ;) dave crocker is still around; he played another role, but can tell nice stories.

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Gross error

it was eighties of course

and Postel was a comment to that interview because he is not mentioned there, not to your interesting link. The most interesting thing in this interview is that Mr. Cerf still thinks that OSI was the greatest danger.

What I allude to among other things is that Postel after 2 versions of TCP persuaded Kahn and Cerf to split TCP into TCP and IP for v3 and actually was the editor of the respective RFCs. Without that splitting, TCP would have run into severe troubles long ago.

And to quote from RFC793 (Transmission Control Protocol)

PREFACE
This document describes the DoD Standard Transmission Control Protocol (TCP). There have been nine earlier editions of the ARPA TCP specification on which this standard is based, and the present text draws heavily from them. There have been many contributors to this work both in terms of concepts and in terms of text. ....

Jon Postel
Editor

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cerf had to talk a lot about osi lately.

well, stepping through rfc's, i think one has to mention van jacobson for developing a congestion avoidance mechanisms(also: rfc 1323)
thanks for the pointer!

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